Domain reclassified as premium. I need advice.

[ryan87]

Hi. I own a domain that was non-premium when I registered it. It was non-premium when I renewed it last year. When I went to renew it today, I noticed it's reclassified as premium. I have ~4 years of daily logs for the classification (from Namecheap's APIs). I'm not confused. I understand how it works and, assuming it's not a mistake at Namecheap, my domain was reclassified without the registration lapsing and without my consent.

That violates section 2.10c of ICANN's baseline registry agreement [1] and, based on common knowledge, it shouldn't happen [2]. Does anyone here know of any tools I can use to check domain classifications (or have access to an API that's not Namecheap)? I'd like to know if the domain was reclassified by the registry (Uniregistry). I'll reach out to Namecheap, but I'd like to have the classification verified by a 3rd party first.

I previously renewed the domain on Feb 5, 2023 when it was classified as non-premium, so I doubt I accidentally consented to a change in classification. On April 12, 2023 it was considered non-premium:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<ApiResponse Status="OK" xmlns="[link removed]">
  <Errors />
  <Warnings />
  <RequestedCommand>namecheap.domains.check</RequestedCommand>
  <CommandResponse Type="namecheap.domains.check">
    <DomainCheckResult Domain="****.help" Available="false" ErrorNo="0" Description="" IsPremiumName="false" PremiumRegistrationPrice="0" PremiumRenewalPrice="0" PremiumRestorePrice="0" PremiumTransferPrice="0" IcannFee="0" EapFee="0.0" />
  </CommandResponse>
  <Server>PHX01APIEXT01</Server>
  <GMTTimeDifference>--4:00</GMTTimeDifference>
  <ExecutionTime>0.39</ExecutionTime>
</ApiResponse>

On April 13, 2023 it was reclassified as premium:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<ApiResponse Status="OK" xmlns="[link removed]">
  <Errors />
  <Warnings />
  <RequestedCommand>namecheap.domains.check</RequestedCommand>
  <CommandResponse Type="namecheap.domains.check">
    <DomainCheckResult Domain="****.help" Available="false" ErrorNo="0" Description="" IsPremiumName="true" PremiumRegistrationPrice="1180.0000" PremiumRenewalPrice="1180.0000" PremiumRestorePrice="35.4000" PremiumTransferPrice="1180.0000" IcannFee="0" EapFee="0.0" />
  </CommandResponse>
  <Server>PHX01APIEXT03</Server>
  <GMTTimeDifference>--4:00</GMTTimeDifference>
  <ExecutionTime>0.619</ExecutionTime>
</ApiResponse>

As of today, it's still classified as premium:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<ApiResponse Status="OK" xmlns="[link removed]">
  <Errors />
  <Warnings />
  <RequestedCommand>namecheap.domains.check</RequestedCommand>
  <CommandResponse Type="namecheap.domains.check">
    <DomainCheckResult Domain="****.help" Available="false" ErrorNo="0" Description="" IsPremiumName="true" PremiumRegistrationPrice="325.0000" PremiumRenewalPrice="28.6000" PremiumRestorePrice="39.0000" PremiumTransferPrice="28.6000" IcannFee="0" EapFee="0.0" />
  </CommandResponse>
  <Server>PHX01APIEXT01</Server>
  <GMTTimeDifference>--5:00</GMTTimeDifference>
  <ExecutionTime>0.616</ExecutionTime>
</ApiResponse>

1. itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/registry-agreements/base-registry-agreement-21-01-2024-en.html#article2.10
2. domainnamewire.com/2022/06/24/can-registries-reclassify-your-domain-as-premium-before-renewal/

 

[bismisoft]

Hope you're making progress @ryan87

 

[ryan87]

@bismisoft Yes, I made some progress in the last couple of weeks. ICANN global support replied in <12h and gave me contact info for the compliance department. I used that to follow up, but didn't get a reply. I wasn't super surprised by that since I was emailing a generic address asking for a case update and that kind of stuff should be going through an issue tracking system.

Since I wasn't having any success following up, I emailed the ICANN Ombuds. I basically said that inaction was excluding me from participating in the complaint process and that I wasn't getting equal access to the process compared to contracted parties that have "working relationships" with ICANN.

The Ombuds was very helpful. She replied to me the same afternoon, said that it wasn't typical to be waiting so long for initial contact, and offered to follow up with the compliance department to see what was going on. Two days later I got an email from the compliance department acknowledging my complaint and indicating it's been added to their database. The Ombuds followed up to let me know the compliance department said it "slipped through the cracks."

I take those kinds of explanations at face value unless I have a concrete reason to believe otherwise. Support can be challenging, especially when dealing with thousands of complex issues per-month and something getting missed is the simplest explaination. I think the process could be improved for registrants, but that's another conversation.

So, as of today, things should be in-progress and I can reply to the email from the compliance department if needed.

 

[bismisoft]

That is fantastic to hear. This is normal in a corporate world although ICANN is a non-profit, like you already mentioned there are ton of issues everyday and it wont make progress unless we push it hard.

For us this is the case, for them it is one of their cases, that makes a huge difference.

You're in the right direction, keep going.

Your persistence is humbling

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

The Ombuds was very helpful. She replied to me the same afternoon, said that it wasn't typical to be waiting so long for initial contact, and offered to follow up with the compliance department to see what was going on. Two days later I got an email from the compliance department acknowledging my complaint and indicating it's been added to their database. The Ombuds followed up to let me know the compliance department said it "slipped through the cracks."

Sounds like a great department for helping registrants navigate the ICANN process.

So, as of today, things should be in-progress and I can reply to the email from the compliance department if needed.

Kudos to you for your persistence! Your thread here on NP, relating to unexpected premium domain name reclassifications, raises a very important concern. Hopefully, the ICANN compliance section can provide clarity soon on this issue.

 

[ryan87]

Sounds like a great department for helping registrants navigate the ICANN process.

It's not a department. It's one person. Based on my understanding, asking them for help is supposed to be a last resort. This is the first time in my life I've every reached out to someone in that role. They're not there to do any kind of day-to-day support and the scope of what they can do for you is somewhat narrow, so I would suggest having a decent understanding of what their role is before asking them for help.

Having access to an ombudsperson is extremely important for normal people to cut through bureaucracy when processes break down or policies aren't being applied equitably, so care should be taken to ensure their time isn't being misused.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

It's not a department. It's one person. Based on my understanding, asking them for help is supposed to be a last resort.

Having access to an ombudsperson is extremely important for normal people to cut through bureaucracy when processes break down or policies aren't being applied equitably, so care should be taken to ensure their time isn't being misused.

Excellent point.

ICANN Compliance hopefully will take your matter seriously.

The concern here is whether the matter was dropped, since you already renewed and the price increase was not huge. Hopefully, they will seriously address the underlying issue--whether the premium domain reclassification was permissible.

 

[leopardini]

Get ready guys. I see the future of domains as a slow squeeze from the guys at the front (registries and registrars) who have figured out ways to keep more of the value inherent in keywords. Examples are premium tiers and longtail pricing models such as the one used for .art developed by Paul Stahura.

This graph is at art.art explaining their pricing model. Notice how domain investors are labeled "squatters". In the Old West cattlemen and sheepherders fought over the value found in water, land and resources. The domain services have finally figured out how to turn the tap off and reserve the value for themselves. What do you foresee will happen? How many registrars will forgo this giant pile of money? I'm gonna guess, eventually, none.

Little guys, tighten your belt. Again.

Feeling disheartened by OP's experience and the general global trend of the big guys treading on the little guys. The one glimmer of hope I see is that sales will be so slow at these premium tier and long tail pricing registrars they will give up the model. Don't give them your money even for low value names.

As speculators we hold a huge amount of dollars at risk. By using these varied pricing models registrars are now holding that risk. Our risk is spread out over millions of investors. Good luck holding all that risk in one company.

 

[leopardini]

I get confused over registry vs registrar. Which is which again?

 

[namegulf]

I get confused over registry vs registrar. Which is which again?

Its not just you, this happens a lot and why we blogged this in detail https://namegulf.com/blog/insights/...gistry-registrar-whois-icann-and-aftermarket/

In short: registry creates, controls & manages the TLD, registrar resells the domains in that TLD

 

[namegulf]

I get confused over registry vs registrar. Which is which again?

Also here is a list of all TLD registrys in the world as of 2024 https://namegulf.com/tld/registry

 

[leopardini]

https://www.dnjournal.com/cover/2015/july. htm (about Paul Stahura)

 

[leopardini]

So it is the registries that are promoting tier pricing and long tail pricing? Or do they only offer it and the registrars accept it or not accept it. I'm assuming registrars set their own prices. Where exactly are these models inserted into the flow

 

[namegulf]

So it is the registries that are promoting tier pricing and long tail pricing? Or do they only offer it and the registrars accept it or not accept it. I'm assuming registrars set their own prices. Where exactly are these models inserted into the flow

Registries provide baseline prices and registrars markup on top of that

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

So, as of today, things should be in-progress and I can reply to the email from the compliance department if needed.

Any further progress? Much discussion about premium renewal matters has been going on at NP recently. Any progress on your ICANN case?

 

[ryan87]

Any further progress? Much discussion about premium renewal matters has been going on at NP recently. Any progress on your ICANN case?

I've interacted with ICANN once more, but I'm not sure what the progress is like. The original email to say my complaint was in progress was on Apr 12. Their docs say they try to respond in 3-5 business days with a 5-5-5 (day) process after that. I hadn't heard anything by May 2 (13 business days), so I emailed to ask about the status. I ended up sending them some (minor) documentation after that and it's been 5 business days since then.

I don't know what's typical for the process, so it's hard to go by anything more than their own docs which makes me feel like it's moving slowly. Even though I'm anxious to get it resolved, I don't know where it lands in terms of complexity for them. The registry agreement makes no mention of "premium" domains, so there may not be a simple process for ICANN to direct the registry to remove the premium tag.

There was also someone on Reddit claiming they had a .cloud domain reclassified, so there seems to be an uptick in that type of complaint, but it's also possible I'm simply spending more time looking for that type of thing recently. I've been trying to find a true reclassification (like mine) for about 5 years and the majority of complaints I've seen are from people that were confused. Of the few that look promising, no one has ever followed up to say what happened. That one on Reddit is really promising because it's been registered for 4 years and the registrant did multi-year renewals on it. Hopefully the OP pursues it. I DMed them today to see if they could tell me where it's at.

In that Reddit thread someone claimed that .xyz tried to reclassify a bunch of domains in the past, but the move got struck down in court. I've searched and can't find anything to back that up. Has anyone ever heard of that?

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

I've interacted with ICANN once more, but I'm not sure what the progress is like. The original email to say my complaint was in progress was on Apr 12. Their docs say they try to respond in 3-5 business days with a 5-5-5 (day) process after that. I hadn't heard anything by May 2 (13 business days), so I emailed to ask about the status. I ended up sending them some (minor) documentation after that and it's been 5 business days since then.

I don't know what's typical for the process, so it's hard to go by anything more than their own docs which makes me feel like it's moving slowly. Even though I'm anxious to get it resolved, I don't know where it lands in terms of complexity for them. The registry agreement makes no mention of "premium" domains, so there may not be a simple process for ICANN to direct the registry to remove the premium tag.

This does seem much slower than expected. Anyone else on NP have a similar experience with ICANN?

There was also someone on Reddit claiming they had a .cloud domain reclassified, so there seems to be an uptick in that type of complaint, but it's also possible I'm simply spending more time looking for that type of thing recently. I've been trying to find a true reclassification (like mine) for about 5 years and the majority of complaints I've seen are from people that were confused. Of the few that look promising, no one has ever followed up to say what happened. That one on Reddit is really promising because it's been registered for 4 years and the registrant did multi-year renewals on it. Hopefully the OP pursues it. I DMed them today to see if they could tell me where it's at.

In that Reddit thread someone claimed that .xyz tried to reclassify a bunch of domains in the past, but the move got struck down in court. I've searched and can't find anything to back that up. Has anyone ever heard of that?

Let's see what the tribe knows, especially since .xyz has been such a hot topic lately.

 

[ryan87]

Let's see what the tribe knows, especially since .xyz has been such a hot topic lately.

I'm also really interested in any registries that have agreed to voluntary pricing schedules (aka caps) with registrars. I know I read an article a few months ago about one of the registries doing that, but I haven't been able to find it again.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

I'm also really interested in any registries that have agreed to voluntary pricing schedules (aka caps) with registrars. I know I read an article a few months ago about one of the registries doing that, but I haven't been able to find it again.

That would be very helpful information, if someone is comparing various non-legacy tld options. If an end-user was considering what name might be best for a website development, having reasonable price stabiity for at least 5-10 years could be a significant factor.

Let's see if the NP tribe has any insight on that.

 

[Name Trader]

Tangentially. I was looking at registering some domains at GoDaddy in the last couple of days. They were giving away a second year for free (nudge, nudge). which was approx the price for a 2 year registration everywhere else. And when they came for renewal on year three. The third year was the same price as the first two years combined. Not that I wanted to actually buy them from GoDaddy. I thought that was a bit of a cheek.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Tangentially. I was looking at registering some domains at GoDaddy in the last couple of days. They were giving away a second year for free (nudge, nudge). which was approx the price for a 2 year registration everywhere else. And when they came for renewal on year three. The third year was the same price as the first two years combined. Not that I wanted to actually buy them from GoDaddy. I thought that was a bit of a cheek.

Good pickup! Maybe it's not such a tangential point? One overall concern in this thread is a quest for clarity. Fair and predictable pricing matters, with registrations and then renewals, whether premium or not.

Some points to consider here:

Were all the domains you looked at labeled as "premium," though not currently having additional higher registration or renewal fees. One wonders if, in the future, certain of these casual "premium domains" could have their renewal fees selectively increased And if those domains inadvertently get renewed, especially under a 3-year auto-renew policy, that could be a surprise bill for the unwary.

After all, domains reclassified as premium appear to get different treatment with ICANN? The price protections seem more nebulous.

And there may be a concern with these multi-year renewal special "deals." Is there any possibility that some "casually" declared premium domains could, in the future, be actually treated like Ryan's reclassified domain.

Hopefully not. But is this a possibility in the future? That's why i look forward to ICANN's reponse to his current premium reclassification issue.

 

[Name Trader]

I don't recall at any time these were being called as "premium" domains by GoDaddy. It's a bit of a coincidence that if they were premium they were all the same price, no variation. I thought I even checked trying to buy one at Dynadot with only regular prices one year prices at approx half the price of GoDaddy's one year + one year free price, AND half the price of their 3rd year price. Their 3rd year price was the same as the one year plus 1 year free price. It just shows how underhanded some of these registrars can be. So the 3 year price was like the 4 year price at Dynadot.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

I thought I even checked trying to buy one at Dynadot with only regular prices one year prices at approx half the price of GoDaddy's one year + one year free price, AND half the price of their 3rd year price. Their 3rd year price was the same as the one year plus 1 year free price. It just shows how underhanded some of these registrars can be. So the 3 year price was like the 4 year price at Dynadot.

"Underhanded" or clever marketing? The multi-year renewal discount packaging is likely effective as a selling strategy, but hopefully customers also do some comparison shopping.

I don't recall at any time these were being called as "premium" domains by GoDaddy. It's a bit of a coincidence that if they were premium they were all the same price, no variation.

What surprised me is that all of my .com domains are now "reclassified" as premium on multiple registrar marketplaces. Apparently, at this point, that does not affect the renewal fees.

The "premium" term appears legit for selling purposes on their marketplaces. After all, one is purchasing a domain above regular registration prices from a seller. So at least in .com, all of my "premium reclassifications" are not associated with unexpected higher renewal costs.

Finally, for @ryan if ICANN is having layoffs, perhaps your case delay is understandable. Hopefully, you will eventually get an answer.

 

[ryan87]

What surprised me is that all of my .com domains are now "reclassified" as premium on multiple registrar marketplaces. Apparently, at this point, that does not affect the renewal fees.

Do you have those listed on aftermarket sites? I think that can get them listed as a premium domain. I don't like it, but I dislike premium domains in general. Disliking premium domains is something I'll explain on my website if I end up setting one up.

Premium domains are a complex product that require a sophisticated buyer and, if in doubt, I think the average registrant should avoid them unless they have the resources and ability to understand what they're buying (or hire a broker). Think about all the domains that get lumped under "Premium".

• Registry Premium First Year
• Registry Premium First Year + Renewal
• Aftermarket Uniform Priced
• Aftermarket Registry Premium First Year
• Aftermarket Registry Premium First Year + Renewal
• Aftermarket Leased

And if you get into something like leasing a domain that's a registry premium domain, it's incredibly complicated with the potential for a huge dispute if the registry increases the price of the premium domain beyond what the registrant (aka lessor) anticipated when they leased it to the lessee.

Because the registry premiums are such a bad product, I would say aftermarket domains with non-premium (aka uniform) pricing are worth a lot more than the others. Personally I'd put it at about 20x the renewal price of a registry premium domain, maybe more since there don't seem to be any registrant protections against price hikes on premium domains. At a minimum, having a domain tagged as premium diminishes it's value because the registrant is put in a worse position in terms of price protection.

I pulled my domain from aftermarket sites and it shows up differently on Namecheap now. As of now, it has a premium tag and a "Make Offer" button. When I had it listed for sale, it showed a buy now price plus the renewal price. Since I know mine's tagged as a registry premium, I don't understand how they can advertise a renewal price. I've never been able to find anything that guarantees the renewal price won't be changed on a whim. I feel like that's an oversight at Namecheap that could expose them to legal problems in the future.

To be clear, I think that might be an industry wide practice and I'm using Namecheap as an example because it's the only one I looked at. Plus, since my domain is registered there, I know they have knowledge of the premium status via their API.

Because premium domains are so complex they require a sophisticated buyer, I think reclassifying domains from non-premium to premium could lead to the argument that consumers are being subjected to a predatory pricing scheme. They're buying a simple product with uniform pricing, which is a type of pricing guarantee, and reclassifying the domain to premium changes it into a complex product with no price guarantees.

Finally, for @ryan if ICANN is having layoffs, perhaps your case delay is understandable. Hopefully, you will eventually get an answer.

That's too bad. I replied in that thread. It's interesting, so thanks for the link.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Do you have those listed on aftermarket sites? I think that can get them listed as a premium domain. I don't like it, but I dislike premium domains in general. Disliking premium domains is something I'll explain on my website if I end up setting one up.

My general impression now is that "premium domains" is a term commonly being used for any domain for sale beyond the usual base registry registration fee. So really the term overall is a simple one.

The complexity, as you astutely point out, is all the different variations of who is selling and whether the renewal is premium. And, of course, the future unknowns.

So any progress with the ICANN case?

 

[ryan87]

So any progress with the ICANN case?

I emailed them on Monday and asked if they could give me a rough idea of what my expectations should be in terms of a timeline for resolving issues like mine. I haven't gotten a reply yet

I'm a bit conflicted on how to handle it. On one hand, it feels like I'm being ignored. On the other hand, they could have a huge load of cases and don't need someone contacting them just to ask for an update. That's why I asked them to set my expectations.

I'll try again on Monday.