I have not read this thread, let alone the applicable terms of Sedo to which the buyer and seller agreed to conduct themselves.
From a quick skim, I gather the OP is advised by a lawyer, and presumably one who gets paid to provide advice, so I don't see the point in my adding anything to that. I like to get paid too.
And, again, from a quick skim, I gather that someone offered a domain name for sale in accordance to whatever the applicable terms at Sedo happen to be, and that someone proposed to purchase the domain name according to whatever the applicable terms at Sedo happen to be. The buyer didn't perform, Sedo won't identify who that person was, and now we have a discussion thread that from which any discussion of whatever the applicable terms at Sedo happen to be is entirely absent. I'm not about to go read them out of some lack of more entertaining things to do.
My general take is pretty simple - don't enter into contracts with people who do not identify themselves to you. As is made clear here, it is pretty hard to sue someone for breach of contract when you don't know who they are, but that is why one of the basic elements of a contract is an identification of the parties to the contract.
If the way the Sedo platform operates is not compatible with that principle of "knowing who you are dealing with" then your choice boils down to whether you want to use Sedo or not. The notion that "I decided to conduct a negotiation and sale with an anonymous person and now I don't know who they are" is sort of like the old joke about the guy who walks into the doctor's office and says, "it hurts when I go like this."
I mean, sure, if you are going to use a sales platform at which you are going to receive offers and negotiate with people who remain anonymous to you, then, yep, you are going to have problems knowing who they are if things go sideways. Maybe that's why people use platforms where they can screw around with sellers anonymously.
If this was all done in the US, then you could file a suit against "John Doe", subpoena Sedo for the information, and then amend your complaint to name the penniless actual person from whom you'd never get the money anyway. I haven't the foggiest notion how legal procedures operate in the UK or Germany in that regard, nor, as noted above do I know whatever the applicable terms at Sedo happen to be, which might be relevant to where one would want to pursue legal action, if any.
"Intro"
Dear Community & dear Dr. John Berryhil,
Again, thank you for giving me some comments on my Thread.
I quoted the post from Dr. Berryhil, but I will answer all your questions.
It's probably because I'm not a native speaker, which makes it a bit more complicated to describe the whole situation adequately (without repeating myself). I write without any translator, just using my business English knowledge and Grammarly to correct things—that's it.
Why did I post this on NamePros?
Let me answer the Post I quoted first, and then I will answer/respond to the other commentators.
First, the "goal" for me to post this here was not to blame Sedo for getting attention.
It was and is a mixture of frustration and lack of knowledge in this industry since I would call myself a Newbie, just for 1-2 years in this sector. So I wanted to know, first, if those kinds of things are usual, and if yes, how you deal with them with regard to such high sums. Last but not least, why are those things not prevented accordingly? (Which is at the end pointing to SEDO).
Respond to Dr. Berryhil's Post
So, let's go through the message: I appreciate your response and all the others who gave their opinion. Because that is what I need. "Unfiltered" views from people who are not getting paid by me to convince me to take legal steps.
- As of now, I have just contacted 3 well-known lawyers for an initial free advisory talk; there is no mandate existing as of now
- The opinion of the first Lawyer was: "You can't grab a naked man into his pockets, save your Money for the lawsuit, which might cost up to $50k - If this is a broke man, and there is nothing to get from him, you will regret, just sell the Domain to someone else - those things happen. Life goes on, if you have another issue - contact me"
- The opinion of the second Lawyer was: "You need to clarify now with Sedo to provide the Buyer's Data. In parallel, you can contact your insurance company and tell them you want coverage for a case where someone has not fulfilled a valid/binding contract and get the allowance to move forward. After receiving the Information about the Buyer, I should decide on my own, based on his Details - If this is a person who can be identified on the Internet so that there is any chance to get more information (For example, if anyone with a LinkedIn Profile, any Investor who is searchable in the Internet. Based on that and asking the Legal Department of Sedo if there is any special rule regarding the place of jurisdiction (SEDO German Office) in Cologne, Germany, this case will go through the UK, which will cost. Since there are defined ranges for payments to lawyers in Germany, the rates in the UK might be higher / different."
- I should then make my trade-off and decide if it's worth suing him in the UK. He also mentioned something like (I'm not sure if I remembered correctly): Other than in Germany, even if you win, the other party does not pay everything - you would also need to pay a piece of the process costs.
- The opinion of the third Lawyer was more or less the same as the second one. Still, he said that the probability of getting the Money is very low - I should try to get as much information as possible, but he would personally move on - even if it's a high sum. He also mentioned a case he had where the seller had an even higher amount - but didn't take legal steps because the buyer was somewhere in the Philippines. The effort and everything was too expensive related to the chance he would have.
I have not paid any of those lawyers so far, so I'm asking here for neutral and unfiltered opinions. I appreciate everyone participating and sharing their experiences with such cases.
My general take is pretty simple - don't enter into contracts with people who do not identify themselves to you
Dr. Berryhil, I do not want you to entertain anyone here. I appreciate your comment, as well as the others. I know that, according to their TOS and after speaking with the Transfer Service Agent, they will provide the Buyer's data.
The Buyer / Seller are marked as "confidential" in all my trades with Sedo. So, it is expected not to share the data if the transaction is running smoothly.
The notion that "I decided to conduct a negotiation and sale with an anonymous person and now I don't know who they are" is sort of like the old joke about the guy who walks into the doctor's office and says, "it hurts when I go like this."
I mean, sure, if you are going to use a sales platform at which you are going to receive offers and negotiate with people who remain anonymous to you, then, yep, you are going to have problems knowing who they are if things go sideways. Maybe that's why people use platforms where they can screw around with sellers anonymously.
This is exactly the point where SEDO plays an important role, and as I mentioned, there are
3 Levels of "Certification." Standard: Up to 10k USD, Pound, Euro,
Second: Up to 100k USD, Pound, Euro,
Third: Obove 100k USD, Pound, USD.
Starting with the Second Level, there is more formal stuff to do. For the third Certification, you must also provide bank statements from the past 60 Days.
So, since it's not mentioned anywhere on the SEDOs page, the question would be:
For example, with the Assumption that this happened in 2015: If someone has collected Money in his bank account over, let's say, 90 Days - provide this bank statement of 60 Days - provide this Evidence that he has Liquidity to trade without any Limit, then SEDO is going to give this Certification Level 3, based on the Evidence he has provided. I got it. Now, there might be different scenarios. Probably, the customer has never traded in those ranges, but he has traded regularly and bought Domains for 10,20,30k. Or we have the scenario that this customer traded 1-2 times for 100k or 150k back in 2015 and never made any transactions.
In my last scenario, the customer applied for this level of certification and never did anything.
This client is bidding a 6-digit amount after being inactive for 9 years.
So the point for me is, where is the end to doing "marketing" with this certification nonsense when it's intransparent and not controlled somehow?
I need to repeat myself. We are talking about SEDO, who call themselves (and they are) the biggest "Premium Domain Platform for Selling / Buying worldwide."
Isn't this just a plain vanilla implementation or check, at least for those transactions, to prevent those things?
So basically, my point in opening this Thread is/was to get unfiltered experiences with that kind of transaction and the fact that those things are happening with SEDO - even though those things already happened in 2008.
This is an easy thing to improve; give me 2 Developers, and I write the Business Case and Proposal to implement sufficient fraud protection, which would not cost 100k EUR according to German consulting rates. It's not rocket science.
Anyways, Thank you very much for your Feedback on this. Even if you did not read everything, I appreciate you!
THANKS, zotix.
Respond to other NamePro Members (appreciated!)
@Jv1999: If this is possible without any additional costs in the UK, I will consider it after getting the Buyer's Data. Thank you!
@Timkh: You are right; there is no doubt that it was a typo. SEDOs Transfer Agent mentioned the sum (to validate), multiple times to the Buyer - he did not said anything about the sum, so this was intended - not a typo at all. Even if he would claim that (he didn't), this is not "trustworthy" for me as someone who does not know the law. In my example of the high amount, I took $89,000 minimum bid / Buyer bid: $600,000 - the Numbers on the Keyboard are not next to each other, and + the minimum bid was not a flat sum, but the Bid was. Thank you!
@wot : Thank you for sharing your experience, which scares me. Those things happen that often, just to one person on the forum. I can't imagine how often this happens in general.
Im not sure if I would get in trouble posting his Name to kind of "Blacklist" him; I'll check this. Thank you!
@biggie: The sad thing about this is that after sleeping a night and reading all your experiences, most likely, this will happen. There is no chance to get the Money.
Indeed, the buyer is aware of the sum; he was also reachable via his phone number, as SEDO told me after calling him some times. The last thing he said was just, "I want to step back from this Transaction." SEDO said, "This is not possible, binding contract, etc." after they wanted to tell them more about the consequences, he quickly hung up.
And yes, you are right: The Domain is not sold until you receive the money. That's a fair point.
Technically, and also written on SEDO, the domain is sold because this contract was closed with the declaration of intent of both parties. Thank you for your comment!
@nameNB : That is precisely what I tried to find out by opening this Thread and how people deal with it. Why things cant be improved. Thank you!
@equity78 : Thanks for providing help / "mental support" by posting here. Appreciate you!
@SuperBrander :
- Appreciate you - and the way you think about this topic, which is more or less the conses of many here
- As I said, it was not a mistake - he bid this amount with his declaration of intent
- I could not bid such amounts with my Sedo Account because I do not have this "Certification." This might be a troll that had passed SEDO's due diligence at some point
- As I said, it is not a new gTLD; it could be .com , .net, .org, .info, .tel, whatever - I do not think this plays such a big role in the "worth of this Domain".
- But to be a bit more precise, I paid a lot for it, and I can assure you that this domain has value in IT since this might have a significant value for Corporates, not only for a little Niche.
- I do not want to say more about the Domain itself since, from my point of view, this is not the Discussion Point to evaluate whether the Bid was something like a Unicorn or crazy insane like "BabyAndBeyond.com" for $350,000. Maybe this was also the case for my 3L—maybe not. I can't evaluate it since the Price of the Domain depends on what the Buyer is looking for and how important it is for him to get the Name.
- But I can also tell you that this Domain is older than 20 years, which indicates that many TLDs are excluded.
- So, in your last sentence, I guess you misunderstood my post, or I didn't write it correctly. My bad.
- I do not know how Brokers interact since I've not been a Domainer for a decade. He left a msg. With his Bid (also mentioning the price) - Since I did not know at this point who he was, the first thing on my mind was that it was a Broker acting for any Corporate. That's why I was not suspicious in the first place + After checking those Certifications.
Thank you very much for your post and all the others here!
I do not intend to waste anyone's time here - If so, I'm sorry.
Since it's a huge amount, I was opening this thread; otherwise, I would not have.
Thanks, and have a great day!
zotix
