UDRP You make the call - Toros.com

[jberryhill]

There used to be a feature in US advertisements shown during football games called "You make the call!" The advertiser would show a clip of some gameplay, and ask the audience to judge whether there had been a penalty. After a few commercials, they would come back and explain what happened.

This UDRP decision hasn't been published by WIPO yet.

Take a look at the Complainant, the domain name and the Respondent, and see what you can figure out about this dispute, and its outcome, before the decision is published next week.

Now... YOU make the call!

Do some research and see what you come up with on both sides of this one. Bonus points will be awarded for finding key facts.

 

[zotix]

Hey, thanks for sharing!
This is an amazing and exciting case, but I think (as someone without a law degree) that "toros.com" has no bad faith like domain skimming.
Also, probably (correct me if I'm talking nonsense), because they are running their business model with this name without harming the other brand, they might keep the Domain.
Or which aspects do you see, as a lawyer?

Best
zotix

 

[Business Brands]

Thanks AI, all lawyers will hopefully be replaced by AI shortly.
These things will be decided automatically.

 

[draco]

Point for the respondent hiring @jberryhill

According to Google Translate, Toros is Spanish for bulls.

While the domain is parked, I don't see any ads related to the Complainant's business. (Maybe someone else does.).

There are a lot of trademarks with Toros in them.

Complainant's business is in Turkey. Respondent is in Spain.

I'll say the Respondent keeps the domain. Maybe even a finding of RDNH if Google translate is correct.

 

[Joe123]

Toros is the name of a major mountain range in southern Turkey (the country of the complainant).

Toros is also name of a former Renault car model in Turkey - I used to drive my then-boss's Toros.

 

[Gm0]

@jberryhill

Deny transfer...

Definition: Toro - the male of the ox family (a bull).

toro (n.)​

"bull," 1650s, from Spanish toro "bull," from Latin taurus

1) The Respondent is a "everything related to computing" company in Spain, dating back to 1994. The respondent registered the toros.com name January 19th, 1997 and has held since that time. The site was called "the bullfighting search engine" as early as 2001. Toro(s) is the perfect name for a bullfighting search engine in Spain.

2) Complainant, a Turkish Fertilizer company, registered the domain toros.com.tr on June 30, 1997 - five months after the respondent registered toros.com. Few/if any would equate "toros" to "fertilizer".

3) toros.com was registered before toros.com.tr. So, respondent, a savvy computer entrepreneur, knew how to navigate the Internet in January 1997, but could not have found the complainant's company until 5 months after registering toros.com.

4) so, no bad faith in registration.

You're welcome.

 

[Gm0]

This guy became General Manager of Toros in 2023. Not having the dot com has been driving him crazy, so he is attempting to steal for $1500.

 

[DomainNature]

Some people/companies think they are entitled to COM domains, even when there is a wide range of usage cases for such domains.

 

[johnn]

Thanks AI, all lawyers will hopefully be replaced by AI shortly.
These things will be decided automatically.

Do you always make nonsense posts even in someone else thread?

 

[Gm0]

RDNH - as the law firm knew better. They should have advised client that it was not a winnable UDRP.

 

[Gm0]

If what is posted below is correct, then I would clearly fail as an UDRP attorney.

@jberryhill

 

[zotix]

@jberryhill

Deny transfer...

Definition: Toro - the male of the ox family (a bull).

toro (n.)​

"bull," 1650s, from Spanish toro "bull," from Latin taurus

1) The Respondent is a "everything related to computing" company in Spain, dating back to 1994. The respondent registered the toros.com name January 19th, 1997 and has held since that time. The site was called "the bullfighting search engine" as early as 2001. Toro(s) is the perfect name for a bullfighting search engine in Spain.

2) Complainant, a Turkish Fertilizer company, registered the domain toros.com.tr on June 30, 1997 - five months after the respondent registered toros.com. Few/if any would equate "toros" to "fertilizer".

Show attachment 253816

3) toros.com was registered before toros.com.tr. So, respondent, a savvy computer entrepreneur, knew how to navigate the Internet in January 1997, but could not have found the complainant's company until 5 months after registering toros.com.

Show attachment 253815

4) so, no bad faith in registration.

You're welcome.

Makes somehow sense for anybody like me, with no law expertise.

But buddy, the Google Maps graphic, was a bit overkill

Best
z

 

[Garet]

If what is posted below is correct, then I would clearly fail as an UDRP attorney.

@jberryhill

Show attachment 253835

That seems obscene. What details could possibly justify transfer of a long-registered common Spanish-language generic term. One doesn't need to know much Spanish to know this is Bull(s). I'm curious as to what led to this decision but I suspect that I won't take comfort in it.

 

[Jannes]

Seems weird, especially if the decision is unanimous. Btw, in 2021 Toros Tarım didn't get torostarim.net

https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/text.jsp?case=D2021-1464

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Seems weird, especially if the decision is unanimous. Btw, in 2021 Toros Tarım didn't get torostarim.net

https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/text.jsp?case=D2021-1464

But they did win TorosGemi.com ... Bullship?

https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/text.jsp?case=D2021-1463

1. The Parties
The Complainant is Toros Tarım Sanayi ve Ticaret Anonim Şirketi, Turkey, represented by Gün & Partners., Turkey.

The Respondent is DOMAIN SALES DOMAIN SALES, DOMAIN SALES, United States of America.

2. The Domain Name and Registrar
The disputed domain name, <torosgemi.com> (the “Domain Name”), is registered with GoDaddy.com, LLC (the “Registrar”).

B. Respondent
The Respondent did not formally reply to the Complainant’s contentions, but sent an email to the Center on June 18, 2021 reading: “Hello, I object to this case. Plaintiff does not have a well-known brand named toros ship”, and sent a second email to the Center on June 22, 2021 reading: “Hello The appealing company’s Toros ship brand is only registered in Turkey and can purchase domains with the .com.tr extension. In order to win this case, they must apply for a well-known trademark. Therefore, I request that this case be closed and necessary decisions be taken.”

C. Rights or Legitimate Interests...In the absence of any explanation from the Respondent, the Panel infers from the use that the Respondent is making of the Domain Name that the reason the Respondent registered the Domain Name was to sell it at a profit. As mentioned in Section 4 above, the Domain Name is connected to a Sedo parking page indicating that the Domain Name is for sale at a price of USD 3,500.

Registering domain names for the purpose of resale at a profit is of itself a legitimate activity and can give rise to legitimate interests for the purposes of paragraph 4(ii) of the Policy. However, such an activity will not give rise to legitimate interests where the respondent’s purpose in registering the disputed domain name was with a view to targeting the complainant.

The Domain Name comprises at the second level the name “toros” in combination with “gemi”, the Turkish word for “ship”. The use of the word “gemi” in both the Domain Name and the Respondent’s email to the Center of June 18, 2021 (see Section 5B above) makes clear that the Respondent is concerned with the Turkish language and that it is unnecessary for the Panel to consider other meanings of “toros” in other languages.

7. Decision
For the foregoing reasons, in accordance with paragraphs 4(i) of the Policy and 15 of the Rules, the Panel orders that the Domain Name, <torosgemi.com>, be transferred to the Complainant.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

If what is posted below is correct, then I would clearly fail as an UDRP attorney.

@jberryhill

Show attachment 253835

I noticed that "transfer" decision too. But I couldn't find anything to support a decision in favor of the complainant. It will be interesting to read the decision.

Is .com.tr far more popular than .tr in turkey?

I noticed that Toros.tr was registered on September 14, 2023 by what looks to be by Toros.edu.tr (a university in Turkey).

Further, it looks like the respondent also owns or owned the .net (WHOIS=17 NOV 97) and the .org (WHOIS=17 OCT 97) which have WHOIS dates after the .com.tr was registered (WHOIS=30 JUN 97). Yet, .com.tr went after the .com (WHOIS=19 JAN 97)

Basically, I'm wondering (if toros is truly not generic) why is .com.tr only targeting .the com, ie the only toros.tld with a WHOIS date that predates .com.tr, instead of targeting Toros.tr or other Toros.TLDs?

 

[jberryhill]

Lol… GMO you are doing really well. There are a couple of interesting facts you haven’t found yet. If you were the complainant’s attorney, what else might you want to look at?

 

[jberryhill]

.tr or other Toros.TLDs?

Like which ones? Try the biggies.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Like which ones? Try the biggies.

Are the biggies necessary?

I've never heard of Toros the Turkish fertilizer company, but if a University in Turkey is named Toros Universitesi, doesn't that prove that Toros itself isn't in fact a unique term reserved only for the Turkish fertilizer company?

Would a Turkish fertilizer (Toros.com.tr) company dare try to make a claim against Toros Universitesi (Toros.tr + Toros.edu.tr)?

Searching Google via mobile phone in california <site:Toros.*>

Search results in order:

1. Toros.consulting
2. Toros.sk
3. Toros.co.jp
4. Toros.de
5. Toros.com.ar
6. Toros.my
7. Toros.szojelentese.com
8. Toros.ty24.ru
9. Toros.com
10. Toros.finance
11. Toros.edu.tr
12. Toros.com.cn
13. Toros.com.tr

 

[jberryhill]

Are the biggies necessary?

At least look into the .net and .org.

 

[Jannes]

HostPapa nameservers, was it parked with ads and they are the culprit here?

 

[Chris Hydrick]

At least look into the .net and .org.

Hmmm... I already mentioned the respondent owns or owned the .net and .org; so I'm not sure where to look...

At least: (# registered according to namedroppers.com)

153 .orgs contain toros
39 .orgs start with toros
27 .orgs end in toros

255 .nets contain toros
65 .nets start with toros
47 .nets end with toros

1,000+ .coms contain toros
1000+ .coms start with Toros
484 .coms end with Toros
37 .coms starts with Toros + hyphen
17 .coms end with hyphen + Toros

Historically, both the .net and .org have forwarded to Toros.com. Currently, both the .net and .org have the same under construction landing page, whereas the .com is parked with 3 links (recruiting platform, social media posting schedule, schedule generator).

Toros.org.tr registered on 16 MARCH 2023 until 2028.

Toros.net.tr available to register.

Soo many toros sports teams.

 

[jberryhill]

Okay. I guess I need to point out that WiPO posted the outcome incorrectly.

They actually do that a lot.

So, yes, the complaint was denied. But there’s more to it than that, which no one has noticed. Actually, two things that are pretty funny. Hydrick is close to one, and GMO is close to the other.

 

[branding]

Interesting challenge

Drum roll...

 

[Jannes]

Okay. I guess I need to point out that WiPO posted the outcome incorrectly.

They actually do that a lot.

So, yes, the complaint was denied. But there’s more to it than that, which no one has noticed. Actually, two things that are pretty funny. Hydrick is close to one, and GMO is close to the other.

I was wondering why you were so jovial from the start.