Please assist! Massive end user deal

[Federer]

I am on the verge of completing a massive end user deal for a short domain - getting 58 times what I paid for it.

I have cash in Escrow OK but I am not trying to PUSH the domain to the new buyer through EuropeDomainsLLC. I have sent faxes and emails that are required for the change of ownership, signature etc. But they are taking ages...Is there anyone who can help me find a valid telephone number for these guys? If this takes too long, I am going to lose the deal.

If someone can help, I can return the favour (PM for details).

Fed.

 

[Michael]

The point is that if he contacts an end user on a domain that YOU own, he is opening you up to bad faith in a WIPO decision... all so HE doesn't have to take any risk buying a domain that he can't sell for more. It also messes up OUR chances of selling to an end user.

Let's say he sees your LLL.com for sale in the high priced forum. What he's doing is approaching end users trying to sell YOUR domain, and once he gets a commitment from them he makes you an offer for less. Every time he blows a negotiation with an end user for YOUR domain, you will not be able to sell it to them.

I vote for a ban as well...

 

[Federer]

Yes I contacted a company whilst bidding for DMG and I admit my mistake. Why don't you just let me prove my repentance through my up-and-coming sales and auction, and stop hovering over people like a wounded wolf in need of prey.

 

[daj]

DMG can stand for many things... how can someone even have the right to say the .COM name should be turned over to them because they happen to have a trademark for the term DMG? I just checked the trademark registry, and there are 3 live DMG trademarks for 3 different companies:

Company 1: a manufacture of ballistic polymer products and bonding materials
Company 2: dental products
Company 3: machine tools

Various other companies use DMG in their name also. So how can one company sue for the .com? It doesn't make much sense when so many companies/businesses can use the name? DMG cand stand for a number of things.

 

[bmugford]

I think you are overstating this JP. Yes a mistake was made.

It is basically the same practice as knowing you can buy a car for $10K and seeing if there are interested parties before buying it. With domains though it is a lot more confusing because there are possible TM's involved and other legal issues.

Federer knows he made a mistake. At least he came here and lived up to his mistake. He didn't try to hide it.

It takes more guts to just admit a mistake and face the consequences than to ignore it.

Brad

YOU put your sales in the same basket ! Trust me this is not jealousy, this is protecting this community from YOU! If you EVER continue to contact end users on names in auction YOU DO NOT OWN YET or names listed for sale on the forums that again YOU DO NOT OWN YET, I swear I will get a team together and sue the crap out of you and do my best to see criminal charges of fraud brought against you!

Buy the name THEN do what you wish, until such time do not contact a soul! Ever wonder why no one else does ? Because its unethical, moral, fraud, deceptive and you are costing people money.

No way else to say it to you STOP!

 

[bmugford]

I know they are not cars, hence my comment

"With domains though it is a lot more confusing because there are possible TM's involved and other legal issues."

You realize he could have just not posted about DMG? He made a mistake and not only was willing to admit it, but was willing to face the consequences.

Brad

Exactly.


Wake up, he didnt think he was doing anything wrong to hide until he said too much and he was called on it.

If he wanted to make things right he could list the dozens of names he has done this on and match up the wipo's ! He has cost people $$$$$$. I do not believe he is stupid, just saw an angel that he had to know was wrong and took it.

Domains are NOT cars.

 

[-REECE-]

By offering it to a trademark holder, you are basically saying "I registered or purchased the domain in bad faith" -- that's how.

Even if you do win the UDRP, most of us would want to hire a lawyer to make sure our case gets properly delivered, meaning you're out of pocket $XXXX even if we do win.

DMG can stand for many things... how can someone even have the right to say the .COM name should be turned over to them because they happen to have a trademark for the term DMG? I just checked the trademark registry, and there are 3 live DMG trademarks for 3 different companies:

Company 1: a manufacture of ballistic polymer products and bonding materials
Company 2: dental products
Company 3: machine tools

Various other companies use DMG in their name also. So how can one company sue for the .com? It doesn't make much sense when so many companies/businesses can use the name? DMG cand stand for a number of things.

 

[Federer]

I made a mistake. I have admited I was wrong. I regret the course of action taken and will make sure it will not be repeated. I have made tons of great sales 1-2 months AFTER having acquired generic domains in the past and I will continue to make sales in the future.

I have apologised. Do you understand or shall I repeat my apologies again... and again. Im sorry. I apologise.

 

[Michael]

Brad... this is not an isolated case that we're picking on him for... he is doing this for just about every deal he does. Why do you think he can flip most of his domains in a few days... because he already had a buyer lined up before he even made an offer to buy the domain. He has probably approached end users for hundreds of domains up for sale on this forum opening us all up to WIPO complaints. How would you feel if you had to spend thousands on a lawyer because Federer approached a TM holder trying to sell your domain? How would you feel if you lost the domain? You'd want blood... and we shouldn't let it get to that point before he gets banned.

 

[bmugford]

The mistake is gauging interest in a domain you don't own. If you own the domain you can do whatever you want with it.

Federer understands this. He admitted his mistake and promised it won't happen again.

Brad

By offering it to a trademark holder, you are basically saying "I registered or purchased the domain in bad faith" -- that's how.

Even if you do win the UDRP, most of us would want to hire a lawyer to make sure our case gets properly delivered, meaning you're out of pocket $XXXX even if we do win.

 

[Michael]

I made a mistake. I have admited I was wrong. I regret the course of action taken and will make sure it will not be repeated. I have made tons of great sales 1-2 months AFTER having acquired generic domains in the past and I will continue to make sales in the future.

I have apologised. Do you understand or shall I repeat my apologies again... and again. Im sorry. I apologise.

If only apologies could keep you out of prison... people need to be punished for their actions. "Your honor, you have to realize I'm sorry for robbing and killing the old lady. I realize now that it was a mistake and I won't do it again!"

Puhleezeeeeee

 

[bmugford]

Michael, I totally understand what you are saying. I would be very upset if I faced some sort of legal action. There is no doubt about that.

However, at the same time Federer came here and posting knowing he made a mistake. He could have just not done anything and no one would have even known.

I am not here just to blindly defend Federer, I am just trying to provide some balance. It is like kicking a dying dog in here.

Brad

Brad... this is not an isolated case that we're picking on him for... he is doing this for just about every deal he does. Why do you think he can flip most of his domains in a few days... because he already had a buyer lined up before he even made an offer to buy the domain. He has probably approached end users for hundreds of domains up for sale on this forum opening us all up to WIPO complaints. How would you feel if you had to spend thousands on a lawyer because Federer approached a TM holder trying to sell your domain? How would you feel if you lost the domain? You'd want blood... and we shouldn't let it get to that point before he gets banned.

 

[NewYorkBum]

Excellent point.

Federer made a mistake by contacting parties to gauge interest in a domain that was currently at auction. He understands the mistake.

I contact potential end users all the time, but only for domains I currently own. Then if something happens the risk is on me.

I am kind of surprised that some people are so quick to attack and act like they are perfect.

To me it is refreshing to see someone admit a mistake and be accountable for it.
He learned his lesson and I don't expect it to happen again.

Brad

 

[taktikz]

....

 

[-REECE-]

The right thing to do is for Federer to post EVERY SINGLE DOMAIN he doesn't own which he solicited endusers on. If he's truly sorry, then he'll accept his mistakes and whatever consequences come from it.

 

[Michael]

It isn't kicking a dying dog, it is punishing a criminal. Thousands of people confess to crimes, do you think they walk free because of it? He only came clean because it would obviously come to light when the winner of DMG got filed against, and his pre-sales pitch was used against the winner in the WIPO complaint. He's not sorry for what he did... he's sorry he got caught. This whole thread is a testament to how proud he is of himself for his business practices...

 

[taktikz]

This whole thread is a testament to how proud he is of himself for his business practices...

I agree.

 

[gazzip]

..oh Federer, I was really enjoying following your quick success ..but ...what have you done

I'm not going to bother laying into you because I think it was done more out of being totally new & nieve ....but If you really want to do the right thing then what Reece suggests is needed.

The right thing to do is for Federer to post EVERY SINGLE DOMAIN he doesn't own which he solicited endusers on. If he's truly sorry, then he'll accept his mistakes and whatever consequences come from it.

.

 

[Napkin.com]

Can we end the back and forth and
just move on

 

[gazzip]

Michael, I totally understand what you are saying. I would be very upset if I faced some sort of legal action. There is no doubt about that.

However, at the same time Federer came here and posting knowing he made a mistake. He could have just not done anything and no one would have even known.

I am not here just to blindly defend Federer, I am just trying to provide some balance. It is like kicking a dying dog in here.

Brad

Very True, other people could be doing this all the time with our parked domains and we may never know anything different...until we get a WIPO


.

 

[Federer]

The right thing to do is for Federer to post EVERY SINGLE DOMAIN he doesn't own which he solicited endusers on. If he's truly sorry, then he'll accept his mistakes and whatever consequences come from it.

- DMG(.)com
- JumpGames(.)com (I actually won this domain and then sold to JumpGames.co.in after the auction) - But I had contacted the company before being awarded the domain

On only ONE occasion, I contacted a TM owner whilst in an auction (DMG). That was the 1st and last time. I never had any idea about this TM issue before. I contact all end users a few hours after being awarded domains, and also help others by brokering their domains to top buyers in Europe and U.S. almost free of charge.

 

[vatsan]

I really dont think what Federer does is wrong. Take Amazon US book store for example. I know so many ppl with huge successful book stores on Amazon. They take orders for books printed at India or UK at prices atleast 10 times more than what they would pay at the publishing country and when they receive an order just buy it from the UK or Indian company at a HUGE regular buyer discount and sell them to the buyer in the US. I even know this one guy who when he receives an order, merely buys from Amazon UK, has a guy in UK who ships it to him in the US and he in turn ships it to his "customer"

 

[Michael]

- DMG(.)com
- JumpGames(.)com (I actually won this domain and then sold to JumpGames.co.in after the auction) - But I had contacted the company before being awarded the domain

On only ONE occasion, I contacted a TM owner whilst in an auction (DMG). That was the 1st and last time. I never had any idea about this TM issue before. I contact all end users a few hours after being awarded domains, and also help others by brokering their domains to top buyers in Europe and U.S. almost free of charge.

So you're telling me you dropped $23k on Explosion.com/.net without already having the $34k buyer lined up? I call major BS. You're new to this business, and unless you're a millionaire (which you aren't), I refuse to believe that you would spend what is likely half your annual salary at best on a domain unless you knew you could unload it immediately.

Same with Flu.info and Acne.info, Nikas.com, and anything else you overpaid for in the reseller market and flipped instantly for a nice profit.

Reece WASN'T asking just for the times this strategy worked for you either. He was asking for every time you were doing this. I refuse to believe that you only tried this a few times and had a 100% success rate. It is much more likely that you've done this on hundreds of auctions and a lot of them you couldn't find an end user in time.

 

[daj]

I have a question why is it not wrong for a registrar to try to sell soon to be dropped domains THAT ARE STILL IN THE NAME OF THEIR OWNERS? but it's wrong for a potential winner of an auction to seek out prospects too see if his investment will be worth it. If anything he's just playing the game, even if it's shady.. Registrar's are kind of doing the same thing..with their expiring domain auctions... They might not be seeking customer's by contacting potential buyers...but their still trying to sell domains they don't even own the right too.

 

[-REECE-]

Yes, EVERY time -- whether it has worked or not. The people who bought these domains are now at a higher risk of a UDRP and they DESERVE to know that and take appropriate legal action if necessary.

So you're telling me you dropped $23k on Explosion.com/.net without already having the $34k buyer lined up? I call major BS. You're new to this business, and unless you're a millionaire (which you aren't), I refuse to believe that you would spend what is likely half your annual salary at best on a domain unless you knew you could unload it immediately.

Same with Flu.info and Acne.info, Nikas.com, and anything else you overpaid for in the reseller market and flipped instantly for a nice profit.

Reece WASN'T asking just for the times this strategy worked for you either. He was asking for every time you were doing this. I refuse to believe that you only tried this a few times and had a 100% success rate. It is much more likely that you've done this on hundreds of auctions and a lot of them you couldn't find an end user in time.

When someone chooses not to renew their domain, they give up all rights to the domain. If the person does not redeem the domain, they lose the domain. If the person redeems the domain, the winner of the auction is refunded and the domain is returned to the person who is still listed in the whois at the cost of the redemption fee.

Let's not confuse the two -- there is nothing in common. The registrar is not contacting endusers.

I have a question why is it not wrong for a registrar to try to sell soon to be dropped domains THAT ARE STILL IN THE NAME OF THEIR OWNERS? but it's wrong for a potential winner of an auction to seek out prospects too see if his investment will be worth it. If anything he's just playing the game, even if it's shady.. Registrar's are kind of doing the same thing..with their expiring domain auctions... They might not be seeking customer's by contacting potential buyers...but their still trying to sell domains they don't even own the right too.

I really dont think what Federer does is wrong. Take Amazon US book store for example. I know so many ppl with huge successful book stores on Amazon. They take orders for books printed at India or UK at prices atleast 10 times more than what they would pay at the publishing country and when they receive an order just buy it from the UK or Indian company at a HUGE regular buyer discount and sell them to the buyer in the US.

Without the book publisher's permission, that's called Copyright Infringement and can land you behind bars doing some serious time.

 

[taktikz]

I have a question why is it not wrong for a registrar to try to sell soon to be dropped domains THAT ARE STILL IN THE NAME OF THEIR OWNERS? but it's wrong for a potential winner of an auction to seek out prospects too see if his investment will be worth it. If anything he's just playing the game, even if it's shady.. Registrar's are kind of doing the same thing..with their expiring domain auctions... They might not be seeking customer's by contacting potential buyers...but their still trying to sell domains they don't even own the right too.

You make a good point.

Yes, EVERY time -- whether it has worked or not. The people who bought these domains are now at a higher risk of a UDRP and they DESERVE to know that and take appropriate legal action if necessary.



When someone chooses not to renew their domain, they give up all rights to the domain. If the person does not redeem the domain, they lose the domain. If the person redeems the domain, the winner of the auction is refunded and the domain is returned to the person who is still listed in the whois at the cost of the redemption fee.

Let's not confuse the two -- there is nothing in common. The registrar is not contacting endusers.






Without the book publisher's permission, that's called Copyright Infringement and can land you behind bars doing some serious time.

Thanks for clearing this up