question I bid on a domain with a huge premium renewal at GD auction, by mistake.

[Primary Names]

I mostly am busy with my day work and engage in some domaining mostly in the evenings or early mornings for about half an hour so the whole exercise is pretty hasty in that sense I like the domains that appear at auctions at GD. Generally I just put my highest bid and forget about it. I lose most of the domains ( mostly to HD ) but do get decent domains some times. The other day I was going through the process faster than usual and I was on the phone due to office affair and also in a tense conversation with my wife so eventually I ended up bidding on a non dotcom domain with premium renewal of a whopping $3XXX. Obviously, I did not notice the premium renewal while putting the bid. Slapped my forehead and have been shaking my head over it since.

GD is expensive but I really like the domains that appear at their auctions so I would not want to close my account there any time soon. Despite it being an honest mistake if I was forced to pay I was mentally prepared to pay the sum only because I could afford the loss this time since I had a sale of lower mid $XXXXX, just last month. I am calling it a loss because I would certainly not be paying the absurd "premium" renewal fee that I would not be paying next year. Additionally I am from India so there was added GST of 13% added to the price along with the renewal fee. So basically it would have hurt my economics but fortunately someone else bid higher. I just hope it is not a domainer like me who missed the "premium" renewal written right there somewhere. As I said......... I am still shaking my head over the whole thing since ....... I thougt I got such a stupid rookie mistake after all these years.

There was around two days left for the auction to end when I wrote to [email protected] and started a private conversation with GD handle here at NP telling them that it was an honest mistake. Despite being a time sensitive matter. I am still hearing crickets. No surprise there but I would not blame GD if they wont forgive the mistake and they "had to stand" by their "policy". Also I don't think they keep much from the massive renewal amount which obviously would go to the registry. It is extremely expensive to call US from where I stay, but I still tried calling up on the phone and it did not just go through probably because my network was not optimal.

I do have more than a few domains stuck there but even if I did not I would not have run away from GD just out of principle. Note that I would not mind paying higher $XXXX for the domain if the renewal cost were normal because then I could hold it all my life. Holding onto a "premium" renewal is absolutely not my thing.

I was just wondering if anyone has been in such situation earlier ( regardless of the platform ) and if you could share with us if things worked out or not. Or did you end up paying a heart breaking sum due to their "policy" ? Do you think GD would have forgiven the mistake ? How was your experience ? What is the usual response from the registrar in such case ?

Not my case but here is tweet from Elliot I saw yesterday.. with somewhat similar concern.

 

[jamesau]

Premium renewals should not be eligible for auctions. ICANN policy should be updated as such.

The whole objective of premium renewals was to remove investors as middlemen. It's double dipping to have a premium auction and premium renewal.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Premium renewals should not be eligible for auctions.

THiIS I was just about to type the same when I saw that it was already noted.

It would send a strong message to the registries who charge high premium renewals if all of the auction places agreed they would not auction names with premium renewals.

Another option, would be to have the auctions segregated, so that any name with a premium renewal was in an auction space ONLY for premium renewal names. In that auction the font/color/bold of renewal must be clear, as various people have already suggested.

-Bob

 

[Future Sensors]

It would send a strong message to the registries who charge high premium renewals if all of the auction places agreed they would not auction names with premium renewals.

It would be noble indeed, but I don't see it happening soon. These marketplaces have major commercial interests, have entered into lucrative deals, are themselves registrars, or are even registry for TLDs. Can be all at the same time.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

It would be noble indeed, but I don't see it happening soon. These marketplaces have major commercial interests, have entered into lucrative deals, are themselves registrars, or are even registry for TLDs. Can be all at the same time.

It would send a strong message to the registries who charge high premium renewals if all of the auction places agreed they would not auction names with premium renewals.

Sure. The issue right now appears to be preventing someone from unknowingly placing a bid that would require a premium renewal charges.

To be crystal clear here, the winner of this particular auction would have been required to immediatey pay the 3K renewal plus their bid? So their actual bids are really starting at 3K plus whatever additional they place as a bid?

 

[Future Sensors]

To be crystal clear here, the winner of this particular auction would have been required to immediatey pay the 3K renewal plus their bid? So their actual bids are really starting at 3K plus whatever additional they place as a bid?

I don't think the bids themselves include the +1 year renewal. But that renewal fee will soon be the result for the auction winner, and they'll have to pay.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

I don't think the bids themselves include the +1 year renewal. But that renewal fee will soon be the result for the auction winner, and they'll have to pay.

Well, then pehaps that isn't quite so bad. Your collective suggestions for improvement sound wise. The question is, if one is passionate about this issue, how such reforms can be implemented.

The simplest solution right now may be for individuals to really consider whether they want to be involved with any such auctions in the first place. Even if the premium renewal price seems not too high, bidding on any of these may be worth rethinking.

That might send a strong message to the marketplaces, if auctions of domains with premium renewals don't sell?

 

[Grimaldi7]

I wish they make a law about these “premium” renewals.

 

[Future Sensors]

I wish they make a law about these “premium” renewals.

Law of supply and demand.

 

[jamesau]

FYI: https://www.thedomains.com/2020/05/28/sedo-verification/

There is no verification for marketplace offers, just auctions. Unless that's changed.

While annoying this is a preferred scenario. There would be no offers on Sedo otherwise.

 

[Primary Names]

May not be exactly on topic but does anyone know if GD / Afternic / Dan show such "premium" renewal on the sale page ? Never seen one. Never bought one and never sold one. Can someone provide just the name of the domain listed on DAN so I could take a look how they handle such domain. They must have placed some kind of warning, right ?

 

[louddrums]

I think the small font may be left that way due to the fact that many domainers have a credit card and sometimes a checking account on file. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that GD may bill whatever they have on the buyer's settings if you don't manually pay for it in time. You may find out much later when you look at your bank or CC statement.

This trickery sorta reminds me of my Starbucks story. It's not the exact thing but still trickery. I was in a super super long drive-thru line which took me 30 minutes to get to the order window. The barista (a good friend) told me they were out of my fav drink and other items. I asked, why didn't they put a sign out listing items they're out of especially for the car-line much further away? She said because if you knew, you would drive off without ordering anything. Since you've spent all this time being in line, surely you will order something instead of leaving empty handed and we still make money. Let that sink in for a moment with the small font and payments on file. I'm sure someone made that mistake and it completed all the way through.

 

[Recons.Com]

@GoDaddy please don't simply brush this off as UX issue.

It is a legal, moral etc. issue here. It is like offering an item for $1 in bold and then having tiny fineprint that the client has to pay $1000 in shipping fees. And, it is apparent from this thread, that people are not noticing the prem renewal fees, so please take urgent action.

It is especially disturbing that you are not letting people off the hook if they communicate to you that the bid was with the assumption of regular renewal and demand them to pay $xxxx to $xxxxx threatening a ban.

This is wrong at any and all levels.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

I think the small font may be left that way due to the fact that many domainers have a credit card and sometimes a checking account on file. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that GD may bill whatever they have on the buyer's settings if you don't manually pay for it in time. You may find out much later when you look at your bank or CC statement.

This trickery sorta reminds me of my Starbucks story. It's not the exact thing but still trickery. I was in a super super long drive-thru line which took me 30 minutes to get to the order window. The barista (a good friend) told me they were out of my fav drink and other items. I asked, why didn't they put a sign out listing items they're out of especially for the car-line much further away? She said because if you knew, you would drive off without ordering anything. Since you've spent all this time being in line, surely you will order something instead of leaving empty handed and we still make money. Let that sink in for a moment with the small font and payments on file. I'm sure someone made that mistake and it completed all the way through.

Thanks for sharing that great anecdote!

Whether "trickery" or clever marketing, full transparency upfront may be best-- without small print for a big, important matter like a very significant annual renewal.

It is especially disturbing that you are not letting people off the hook if they communicate to you that the bid was with the assumption of regular renewal and demand them to pay $xxxx to $xxxxx threatening a ban.

This is wrong at any and all levels.

Yes, the one poster above, that thought they could simply close their account and not pay, may not understand a TOS. A TOS may have a clause about your understanding and agreeing that a collection agency may be used. So there may be little recourse if you win the auction.

Years ago, I got a whopper of a bill for domains on auto-renew. I didn't realize from the fine print that if a domain was last renewed for "X" number of years, auto-renew will renew them for that same number of years. I figured, common sense, was that "auto-renew" meant a renewal for just one year.

Well, that "great bulk deal" I got the decade prior, for multiple 10-year registrations, now became a shocker. The low fees and great discount from before with a "greart deal" had no longer applied. And no, customer service indicated the domaiins I clearly had not wanted to renew for another decade were not refundable. So, I stopped using auto-renew, removed any paying method from their site, and ultimately moved my domains away from that registrar.

And I learned a painful lesson. Read the fine print. Also, consider only using businesses where you do not feel such a need for vigilance.

 

[pb]

I don't think the bids themselves include the +1 year renewal. But that renewal fee will soon be the result for the auction winner, and they'll have to pay.

They do. The renewal is included in what you need to pay for the auction (if we're still talking about GD expired domain auctions).

 

[pb]

It is like offering an item for $1 in bold and then having tiny fineprint that the client has to pay $1000 in shipping fees.

Which, ironically, is forbidden by auction sites...

 

[Future Sensors]

They do. The renewal is included in what you need to pay for the auction (if we're still talking about GD expired domain auctions).

Yes, finally. But with every bid?

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

.... so eventually I ended up bidding on a non dotcom domain with premium renewal of a whopping $3XXX. Obviously, I did not notice the premium renewal while putting the bid. Slapped my forehead and have been shaking my head over it since.

So to be crystal clear here, if you had won this auction, were you going to immediately have to pay $3XXX plus your bid?

 

[pb]

Yes, finally. But with every bid?

You don't pay for bids, only the winner has to pay for the auction. Sorry, maybe I got confused. But @LoveCatchyDomains is right, the actual bid in this case is $60+10k not $60. Of course it would not look as attractive then. Even for "normal" domains, the auctions supposedly starts at $25 but it really starts at $47*, because the renewal fee is non-optional, you can't just win the auction and transfer the domain to another registrar who offers better renewal prices.

(*) for most users, I know there are lower renewal rates for DDC subscribers.

 

[pb]

So to be crystal clear here, if you had won this auction, were you going to immediately have to pay $3XXX plus your bid?

Yes.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Yes.

Wow!

Checking out some other auction sites, I was really impressed by Namecheap's approach. You have to click the checkbox before proceeding:

This was one example from a Namecheap auction:

"I agree to pay if I win this domain An additional fee of $15.88 will be added to the final purchase price for one year of registration for this .com domain."

This seems to be a great way of making certain that someone like our opening poster doesn't get into a similar bind. Pehaps other auction sites would be wise to emulate this. Whether $15.88 or $3K+, the check box helps make certain there is full transparency.

 

[louddrums]

Wow!

Checking out some other auction sites, I was really impressed by Namecheap's approach. You have to click the checkbox before proceeding:

This was one example from a Namecheap auction:

"I agree to pay if I win this domain An additional fee of $15.88 will be added to the final purchase price for one year of registration for this .com domain."

This seems to be a great way of making certain that someone like our opening poster doesn't get into a similar bind. Pehaps other auction sites would be wise to emulate this. Whether $15.88 or $3K+, the check box helps make certain there is full transparency.

Yes, but it needs to go further. There's something called "habituation" that takes over after awhile. When you have read something so many times, you'll eventually not notice the renewal fees anymore, you'l1 just quickly click through the motions. The next step to break that and only for the big renewal fees, is to have a box of which you type in the actual amount of the fee you've just read and a checkbox that you agree to this amount. If the amount you've typed in is incorrect, it won't let you go past that popup until you've correctly entered in the renewal fee. It's call an "Attention Interrupter". This is a real problem I have with my custom Task app which has recurring task. My users are so used to a task recurring on a particular day that they no longer read the task. They'll just assume and click "completed task" without reading if anything had changed. So now, I've explored hiding a single number in the task and they have to read it to find it and type that number into the box. This way if the task ever changes, they'll notice the task changed because they're forced to read until they find that one hidden number. Did you see the hidden number?

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Yes, but it needs to go further. There's something called "habituation" that takes over after awhile. When you have read something so many times, you'll eventually not notice the renewal fees anymore, you'l1 just quickly click through the motions. The next step to break that and only for the big renewal fees, is to have a box of which you type in the actual amount of the fee you've just read and a checkbox that you agree to this amount. If the amount you've typed in is incorrect, it won't let you go past that popup until you've correctly entered in the renewal fee. It's call an "Attention Interrupter".

Excellent points!

@Primary Names, by sharing his "oops moment," has helped raise attention to this important issue.

If a "renewal" is a mandatory fee with a winning bid, wouldn't the simplest approach be to include it in the starting bid price? Perhaps the best protection for consumers using these auctions?

Some of you right now may be shaking your head, saying "No, that will never happen." Well, think about it. If you try to sell domains at an auction, do YOU want those potential customers lost permanently, because they actually ended up paying much more at another marketplace unexpectectedly? That may be one less potential bidder for your domains, each time it happens elsewhere.

And, how does change happen? Consider using only auction sites that provide full transparency upfront. Doesnt NamePros require full transparency on its marketplace? Why not have similar high standards elsewhere?

 

[louddrums]

Excellent points!

@Primary Names, by sharing his "oops moment," has helped raise attention to this important issue.

If a "renewal" is a mandatory fee with a winning bid, wouldn't the simplest approach be to include it in the starting bid price? Perhaps the best protection for consumers using these auctions?

Some of you right now may be shaking your head, saying "No, that will never happen." Well, think about it. If you try to sell domains at an auction, do YOU want those potential customers lost permanently, because they actually ended up paying much more at another marketplace unexpectectedly? That may be one less potential bidder for your domains, each time it happens elsewhere.

And, how does change happen? Consider using only auction sites that provide full transparency upfront. Doesnt NamePros require full transparency on its marketplace? Why not have similar high standards elsewhere?

Great idea. Having the starting bid with the renewal price included as the minimum bid amount, would be the most idiot-proof solution really.

 

[Recons.Com]

Excellent points!

@Primary Names, by sharing his "oops moment," has helped raise attention to this important issue.

If a "renewal" is a mandatory fee with a winning bid, wouldn't the simplest approach be to include it in the starting bid price? Perhaps the best protection for consumers using these auctions?

Some of you right now may be shaking your head, saying "No, that will never happen." Well, think about it. If you try to sell domains at an auction, do YOU want those potential customers lost permanently, because they actually ended up paying much more at another marketplace unexpectectedly? That may be one less potential bidder for your domains, each time it happens elsewhere.

And, how does change happen? Consider using only auction sites that provide full transparency upfront. Doesnt NamePros require full transparency on its marketplace? Why not have similar high standards elsewhere?

The renewal varies depending on the membership status. E.g. you pay around $10/year for .com instead of $21 if you have DDC membership.

The best way is a) display the renewal fee as prominently as the actual bid amount b) on the bid confirmation, have the bidder confirm that he/she realizes he is going to pay the $X bid amount + Y renewal Amount = Z Total amount within N days from winning the auction.

But this is only if GD is genuinely interested in being fair, transparent and honest and would rather not make few hundred K a year from forcing people to pay through their noses at the cost of its reputation.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

The renewal varies depending on the membership status. E.g. you pay around $10/year for .com instead of $21 if you have DDC membership.

The best way is a) display the renewal fee as prominently as the actual bid amount b) on the bid confirmation, have the bidder confirm that he/she realizes he is going to pay the $X bid amount + Y renewal Amount = Z Total amount within N days from winning the auction.

But is the renewal fee discount applicable also to premium renewal fees with an auction? Presumably that fee is set by the registry. And is this a significantly lower price in a domain public auction for DDC members in the instance cited by @Primary Names ?

Let's say a discounted premium renewal fee is available for certain members bidding on a domain auction marketplace. Would this make the bidding very questionable, as some bidders would clearly have an ultimate advantage--regardless of how the added premium renewal fee is displayed?